I haven’t posted anything about Casey Anthony trial. I’d pretty much like to keep it that way because, really, I don’t know anything about the case. On the other hand, I know there’s a long and painful history of laws like this:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 6, 2011Contacts: Michelle Crowder, “Caylee’s Law” petition-starter, 918-289-8479 (CDT)
Brian Purchia, Director of Communications, [email protected], 202-253-4330 (PDT)
Rebecca Buckwalter-Poza, Campaign Director, [email protected], 919-423-4783 (EDT)***PRESS RELEASE***
CAMPAIGN TO CREATE “CAYLEE’S LAW” GOES VIRAL
Oklahoma woman calls for parents who fail to notify police of missing child to be charged with felony; more than 37,000 supporters join in less than 24 hoursWASHINGTON, DC – More than 37,000 people in all 50 states have joined a Change.org campaign calling for a federal law — called “Caylee’s Law” — that would make the failure of a parent to notify law enforcement of a child’s disappearance a felony.
Casey Anthony was found “not guilty” of first-degree murder or manslaughter on Tuesday in the case of her two-year-old daughter Caylee’s death. One of the central controversies of the case has been the fact that Anthony never notified law enforcement that her daughter was missing. Caylee was last seen on June 16, 2008; grandmother Cindy Anthony notified the police on July 15, a month later.
After hearing the verdict and seeing a Facebook page response, Oklahoman Michelle Crowder started a Change.org petition asking Congress to create “Caylee’s Law,” making it a federal offense and a felony for a parent or guardian to fail to report a child’s disappearance to law enforcement.
Nearly 2,000 people have signed the “Caylee’s Law” petition each hour since its creation, making it the fastest-growing campaign on Change.org.
“When I saw that Casey Anthony had been found not guilty in the murder of little Caylee, and that she was only being convicted of lying to the police about her disappearance, I was sickened; I could not believe she was not being charged with child neglect or endangerment, or even obstruction of justice,” said petition-starter Michelle Crowder.
“I saw a page on Facebook proposing that a law be made, but I saw nothing about a petition being started for it. So, I decided to start one on Change.org because I have signed several petitions on the site and I knew it would be a way to reach people and hopefully get something done.”
Michelle continued, “I am hoping that this will be made into a federal law so that no other child’s life, disappearance, and/or death is treated in the manner that poor Caylee’s was treated. No child deserves that.”
“There is extensive debate about this issue, and this campaign has been remarkable,” said Change.org founder Ben Rattray. “In less than 24 hours, a woman in Oklahoma has recruited tens of thousands of supporters for her cause. Change.org is about empowering anyone, anywhere, to take action on the issues that are important to them, and it is the perfect platform for this record-breaking campaign.”
Change.org, the world’s fastest-growing platform for social change, was profiled this week in the New York Times, Sacramento Bee, and Washington Times.
Live signature totals from the “Caylee’s Law” petition on Change.org:
http://www.change.org/petitions/create-caylees-lawFacebook page that prompted Michelle to start the Change.org campaign:
http://www.facebook.com/CreateCayleesLawFacebook page tied to Michelle’s Change.org petition:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Create-Caylees-Law/239305669422074
(I’ve left all the links in the press release so you can see the startling amount of self-promotion involved. Most of those links that appear to lead to a news story — e.g. “thousands of supporters” or “record-breaking campaign” lead right back to the Change.org petition page.)
You don’t have to follow news about our criminal justice system for very long to know that laws named after (alleged) crime victims are often just legislative theater (“Behold! I have done something about this problem!”), in which case they are usually a poorly-written overreaction to a single incident, and they usually do more harm than good.
Here’s the text of the petition:
Create Caylee’s Law, Not Reporting Child’s Death Should Be a Felony
Greetings,
On July 5, 2011, at 1:15 pm CST, Casey Anthony was found not guilty of first degree murder in the death of her daughter Caylee Anthony. The only charges she now faces are four counts of falsifying police reports, each of which only carries a 1 year prison term. Since she has been in jail since August 2008, she will be out of jail ENTIRELY too soon.
I’m writing to propose that a new law be put into effect making it a felony for a parent, legal guardian, or caretaker to not notify law enforcement of the death of their child, accidental or otherwise, within 1 hour of said death being discovered. This way there will be no more cases like Casey Anthony’s in the courts, and no more innocent children will have to go without justice.
Also, make it a felony for a parent, legal guardian, or caretaker to not notify law enforcement of the disappearance of a child within 24 hours, so proper steps can be taken to find that child before it’s too late.
The case of Caylee Anthony was tragic, and there is no reason for another case like this one to hit the courts. Let’s do what is necessary to prevent another case like this from happening.
[Your name]
Offhand, I see at least four problems.
First of all, why should this be a federal crime? The related crimes — murder, manslaughter, endangering a child — are not generally federal crimes.
Second, does it really make sense to require parents to notify law enforcement within one hour? My God. I don’t have children, but my guess is that if you discover your child dead, it could take you an hour before you even have the strength to get up off the floor.
Third, most children who die in the home, or otherwise in their parents’ care, are not murder victims. They die of accidents or medical conditions. Thus, nearly all parents who suffer the death of a child — and are therefore subject to this law — are not actually criminals. They did nothing wrong. And they know they did nothing wrong. So, in the midst of mind-numbing tragedy, they might not realize they’re supposed to call the cops. After all, it’s not like the cops can help.
Fourth, the petition says parents are supposed to notify law enforcement of the disappearance within 24 hours. I don’t know if it’s true, but haven’t we all heard that the police won’t even begin a missing person investigation until at least 24 hours have passed? So why try to report it before then? And if we’re talking about a troublesome teenager, involved with drugs, I’d imagine that disappearances of several days are not unusual. And if you suspect your child is involved with drugs, calling the police is probably a terrible idea.
Most of the problems I’ve mentioned might sound like they could be handled with a carefully drafted law. For example, the requirement to report a disapperance could be limited only to young children like Caylee. That’s the logical and sensible thing to do. Then again, it would be logical and sensible if laws against child molestation did not apply to 18-year-old boys who have consensual sex with their 16-year-old girlfriends, and yet they do. Logic and sense often go out the window when children are involved.
The problem is that laws like this — laws named after people — are usually passed for show, and so thoughtful, careful drafting is not a priority. If someone actually does propose a Caylee’s Law (and I’m guessing someone will) it may not have any of the flaws I’ve suggested here, but it’s a good bet that it will have something wrong with it.
There’s also a good chance it will be loaded up with unrelated provisions. After all, why should it apply only to children? Don’t we care about the elderly too? Or the mentally impaired? And isn’t there something else on the law enforcement wishlist we could add to the bill?
And then there’s the issue of how the law will actually be applied. I predict that many years will go by before the law is used in a case similar to the Casey Anthony trial. On the other hand, if history is any guide, a law like this will probably turn into a de-facto sentencing enhancement/plea-bargaining chip.
For example, when a parent kills his own child in a drunk-driving accident, in addition to the DUI, reckless endangerment, manslaughter, or whatever else would be typical, he might find himself charged with a Caylee’s Law violation because he was too drunk to report the death in a timely fashion. It’s just another charge on the pile to get a little more jail time.
Or maybe the missing-child reporting requirement will be used to harass the families of suspected criminals: “You say you don’t know where your son is? And you haven’t seen him since Friday? That’s more than 24 hours. Tell us where he is, or we’ll arrest you right now.”
None of this will address the problem that has everybody so upset: The impression that Casey Anthony got away with doing evil because there just wasn’t enough evidence. Caylee’s Law would do nothing to fix that. Instead, Caylee’s law would criminalize certain actions or inactions, not because they are especially evil, but because they are easy to prove. And that’s no way to write criminal law.
Update: Radley Balko says it better:
This is a bad way to make public policy. In an interview with CNN, Crowder concedes that she didn’t consult with a single law enforcement official before coming up with her 24-hour and 1-hour limits. This raises some questions. How did she come up with those cutoffs? Did she consult with any grief counselors to see if there may be innocuous reasons why an innocent person who just witnessed a child’s death might not immediately report it, such as shock, passing out, or some other sort of mental breakdown? Did she consult with a forensic pathologist to see if it’s even possible to pin down the time of death with the sort of precision you’d need to make Caylee’s Law enforceable? Have any of the lawmakers who have proposed or are planning to propose this law actually consulted with anyone with some knowledge of these issues?
This is exactly what I mean about the trouble with hastily-passed laws. People could go to jail for breaking this law, and Crowder didn’t even spend a day doing research. That’s irresponsible and dangerous.
Thank you for both your careful reasoning and explication of it. I can relate to this from several of the perspectives you have clarified. The experience that has brought the most understanding is that of one of my children’s developing [mental illness/epilepsy/acquired brain injury] with concomitant unacceptable behaviors. Thanks, again, for taking the time to write this piece.
Most laws have flaws, but we still have laws. Being nitpicky about certain aspects of certain laws is easy. Sure, 24 hours isn’t reasonable, but how about 31 days? How about holding out so long so as to have your mother call 911 to find her granddaughter? Currently under the law, this is not even endangering a child. It should be.
As to your gripe about naming laws after people – so what? Who cares what the law is named so long as it helps create a more just society. I’m all for a careful drafting of laws. A careful drafting of a law that makes it a crime to fail to report your own child’s abduction is long overdue.
My gripe is not that the laws are named after people, but that the laws are poorly drafted or disproportionately harsh. Laws named after people are usually a red flag for bad legislation because they are usually created as legislative theater, often in response to a rare event, and are usually passed quickly and without a lot of discussion.
You suggest changing the missing person deadline from 24 hours to something longer. Okay, but aren’t you missing something else? Shouldn’t it at least be something like “fails to report the child missing and something bad happens to the child“? Otherwise you’ll be nailing people who fail to report a missing child even if the child eventually turns out to be okay.
A few other questions: What exactly should the punishment be? How often do situations like this actually occur? If this law had been passed 10 years ago, would it have saved any lives? Or would it just be used to ensure that in this one specific case you got a form of justice you prefer?
Hi Mark,
I don’t buy it. So, let me understand this. You’re afraid a mother will fail to notify the police her 3 year old is missing, only to find out the child’s father accidently picked her up too early from soccer practice? You’re then afraid this poor woman would be reported and then convicted of a felony? No way.
My example should just illustrate that there should be a carefully crafted law that ensures that any missing child is accurately accounted for by the parents or legal guardians. Law enforcement is there precisely to decipher such cases. This isn’t asking too much of the justice system in my opinion.
As to your other points: What should the punishment be, etc. those are points that lawmakers need to sort out. Just because I say evading police on the highway should be against the law, that doesn’t mean I need to define a particular uniform punishment to make my argument.
Finally, to your point about “how often does this happen?” Well, I don’t know how often. It should never happen. Children should never be abused but they are. I recently heard of a horrible story where a small child was placed in a microwave. How often does that happen? Egregious acts against children need to be prevented by law no matter how rare.
You must report a car accident. Why not the death of your child! You’re all missing the point!
In the end would caylee’s disappearance even fall under this. Her mom admits she wasn’t missing but rather dead. Maybe it should be illegal to not report the death of your child in a timely manner but I agree that it’s hard to enforce a law about a missing child due to kids running away for hours all the time and the issue with teenage kids being gone for days. Also can’t they at least get her on improper handling and disposal of a corpse? I know there is laws for those. But then again without evidence its nothing and all you have is he said she said stuff.
“No way.”
Yes way. Things like this happen all the time. I’m not saying that this will happen every time, but it will happen whenever the cops want it to happen.
“Law enforcement is there precisely to decipher such cases. This isn’t asking too much of the justice system in my opinion.”
It shouldn’t be asking too much, but time after time, the justice system has proven itself incapable of these kinds of judgements. Basically, if you allow these kinds of flaws to remain in the law when it passes, you’re allowing police and prosecutors to pick and choose who it applies to. Sure, most of the time when someone innocently fails to report a missing child, the police won’t do anything about it. You’re probably imagining that they’ll only press charges in another case like Caylee’s. I, on the other hand, am imagining they will also press charges against anyone who pisses them off, or who they want to apply pressure to for some other reason. Cops have always done stuff like this, usually to poor people living in the inner city.
“those are points that lawmakers need to sort out”
And which they often fail to do, especially when passing grandstanding legislation such as the proposed Caylee’s Law. Which was my whole point.
“Egregious acts against children need to be prevented by law no matter how rare.”
So you think Casey Anthony wouldn’t have killed Caylee if a law like this was in place? I’m unfamiliar with the case, but I suspect you are wrong. Feel free to explain why I’m wrong.
“You must report a car accident. Why not the death of your child! You’re all missing the point!’
In this state, failure to report a car accident will probably get you a moderate fine. There’s jail time in theory, but I’m pretty sure you’d have to have a record. This doesn’t sound like the sort of punishment that would deter a murderer. This doesn’t sound like the sort of punishment that would have saved Caylee. And if the penalty for failure to report the death is made severe enough to deter a murderer, it will disproportionately harm everyone else it ensnares.
What I think is going on here is that a lot of people would like a way to send a suspected murderer to prison when the evidence is pretty good that they did it, but not good beyond a reasonable doubt. So they’re trying to criminalize actions that are related to the murder but aren’t actually murder. And I’m pointing out that this risks punishing people as if they were murderers even if they’re not murderers. I’d rather not punish the innocent, they’d rather not free the guilty. I think we’re at an impass.
You are absolutely right. People are just outraged by the case. And are wanting to patch the flaws in the system that are allowing Casey Anthony to walk out of jail tomorrow. Or most likely walk out of jail. While I am also upset that a mom can murder their child or have them die and dump their body in a swamp and go and party for 31 days sleeping around and getting tattoos while all the evidence is decomposing and animals are eating her corpse this wont solve that. A law really has to be thought out. And attaching this little girls name to something without thinking it through is wrong. Maybe there is someway to change the way things work in caylees memory but I do not believe this is it. And laws are not only out there to prevent people from breaking them but to punish them as well. So you can’t use that arguement. Just because it may not stop a murder doesn’t make a law not worth passing.
Hell I wish there were a law to prevent her from having more children. There will always be flaws in the system though and this wont fix that. She has herself to face in the end for her own actions. And most likely nobody will ever know the real truth. It makes me sick as well but this isn’t possible. This isn’t the only case ever where someone has gotten away with murder. Having to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt protects us all. And as sad as it is to say the state just didn’t have all the evidence. Nobody’s fault but Casey. But it is there to protect us all. Next time you get a jury summons remember this case. Its your chance to make a difference. The system is flawed but its here to protect us all.
“Yes way. Things like this happen all the time. I’m not saying that this will happen every time, but it will happen whenever the cops want it to happen.”
When deciding on whether or not to have a speed limit, one could say, “surely someone will be pulled over on the way to the hospital and die as a result.” They could, and probably would be right. You don’t make law on exceptions. Not reporting a missing child would, indeed, be a rare occurrence, but it should be covered under endangering a child.
“Basically, if you allow these kinds of flaws to remain in the law when it passes, you’re allowing police and prosecutors to pick and choose who it applies to.”
Welcome to the U.S. justice system, Mark. Again, flaws are all over the place in our laws. Laws are made by human beings. That’s why we have trials etc., to sort through it all. Are there miscarriages of justice, yes. We still try to create good law and apply the law appropriately.
“So you think Casey Anthony wouldn’t have killed Caylee if a law like this was in place? I’m unfamiliar with the case, but I suspect you are wrong. Feel free to explain why I’m wrong.”
Did I say that? I didn’t. What I do believe, is that Casey should be punished for harming her child (now that she’s not guilty). She failed to report her “missing” child until her mother called 911, 31 days later. Yes, this should be a crime.
A parent is required to feed her 3 year old child. In other words, if a mother lets her 3 year old child starve in the home, that mother is arrested. But that same mother could take her 3 year old to the county fair and “accidently” let her walk off and not report it. She could not report it long enough for it to be too late to find or save the child.
“And which they often fail to do, especially when passing grandstanding legislation such as the proposed Caylee’s Law. Which was my whole point.”
Your whole point amounts to nothing more than saying, “laws in general have problems and unintended consequences, therefore, we should not have this law.” You need to show why not reporting a missing child for 31 days should not be a crime. You need to show why any parent deserving of the title “mother” or “father” who would fail to report a missing child would do so for good reason.
“What I think is going on here is that a lot of people would like a way to send a suspected murderer to prison when the evidence is pretty good that they did it, but not good beyond a reasonable doubt. So they’re trying to criminalize actions that are related to the murder but aren’t actually murder. And I’m pointing out that this risks punishing people as if they were murderers even if they’re not murderers. I’d rather not punish the innocent, they’d rather not free the guilty.”
No. What I think is going on here, is that a lot of people think that not reporting your missing child for 31 days amounts to endangering a child and should be classified as such under the law. I have seen no arguments for punishing people for not reporting a missing child as equivalent to murder. Or at least, I am not making that argument.
“I think we’re at an impass”.
I think so.
“You don’t make law on exceptions. Not reporting a missing child would, indeed, be a rare occurrence, but it should be covered under endangering a child.”
You kind of contradict yourself here, but I think I know what you mean. You think that police abuse of Caylee’s Law would be rare, and therefore the possibility of such abuse is not a good reason to avoid passing the law. I think that, given the rarity of incidents like this one, abuses of the law will far outnumber the legitimate applications.
Just to be clear, I’m not saying that failure to report a missing child shouldn’t be a crime. I’m saying that Caylee’s Law, as described in the petition, seems ill-advised. For example, you’re talking about a child missing for 31 days (I assume that’s the fact pattern from the trial) whereas the law as proposed says only 24 hours. And only 1 hour to report a death.
“Laws are made by human beings. That’s why we have trials etc., to sort through it all. Are there miscarriages of justice, yes. We still try to create good law and apply the law appropriately.”
You keep saying that laws are flawed, and then dismissing the problem as if it there’s nothing we can do about it. But we can do something about it. We can’t make every law perfect, and we can’t anticipate all possible scenarios in which it might apply, but the quality of our statutes is not totally beyond our control. We can make good laws.
But passing a federal law for a traditionally state-level matter in the heat of the moment after a high-profile trial is probably not the best way to do it.
Excellent breakdown of the problems with this law. I thought of many of them while reading it but I wouldn’t be able to eloquently outline them as you did. I’m going to begin sharing this post immeidately.
Actually if a child goes missing the police will help a.s.a.p. not time limit. I get where you are coming from but I think the gist of the law is IF your child disappears or dies you must report it. Other than obstruction and child abuse (both minor sentences) there is no Law to force obvious white trash slunts to do the right thing! Point as I see it no child deserves to be tossed in a swamp. I get both points.
Retired atty. The proposal noted above is assinine. Re: the verdict. No evidence was presented at the trial to even indicate the cause of death. No autopsy. Sure, the defendant lied, but it cannot be inferred from her “lies” that she did anything. All evidence presented at trial was circumstantial. The only direct evidence was that the child was dead. Can’t convict on that.
Re: your concerns:
#1) Many states have crazy local rules/laws. Making it federal is great idea, covers ALL ppl everywhere, no matter what yahoo area you live in. More resources can be brought to bear for federal crimes.
#2) NO, i disagree. As ER doc, having held many many many parents as their children die/after they are found dead———>overwhelmingly, parents WANT help, WANT rescue attempts, and comfort/info/help/authorities, most DEFinitely. Some ‘apparent deaths’ can be revived, esp in drownings and hypothermia.
I suspect, that in case of someone who found dead baby, and sat there with it for extended time before calling for help, would be sorted out on case by case basis, just like any other law.
#3) True, but, evidence gets destroyed quickly to PROVE their innocence. See my reply to #2) above for rest of your remarks, and yes, cops do know CPR and CAN be very helpful to those suffering loss, i’ve seen cops be very compassionate and helpful, even pointing out resources the berieved can turn to for further help.
I get impression, that you have had very little, if any, experience helping out parents of dead children.
#4)No, the police will definitly begin searching immediately for a missing child, NO “24 hour wait” req’d. (but, you are right, that USED TO be the case).
and i agree, the law will be drafted/tweaked like all our laws are, as they go through legislative process.
Dr C.
I am so appreciative that Michelle took the first step in creating a petition for Caylee’s Law. I along with the almost 1 million people who made an effort to sign this petition, feel the urge that some steps be taken to hold those accountable that choose not to report their child missing.
As Judge Perry said, the Jury spoke loud and clear… and now, we the people that signed this petition, speak loud and clear that some measures need to be taken so “history” doesn’t repeat itself.
The Help Find ALL Missing Act ~ A Law for Caylee NOW! Billy’s Law is already in… process with additional cosponsors we can assure that it will pass … for ALL Missing … please go to the link below and lend a hand … hasn’t Caylee waited long enough? Here’s positive change for many that we… can accomplish now!! http://peace4missing.ning.com/
Dr. C, thanks for a very substantive reply.
If there’s a gap in the law here, I have no objection to filling it, but I’ve been around long enough to know that it’s easy to do more harm than good when passing laws for purposes of political grandstanding.
#1. I’m wary of making federal crimes of things that don’t really need federal involvement. The federal justice system was built to go after mobsters and terrorists. It’s overkill for negligent parents, especially since the reporting requirement for missing children is triggered even if no child is harmed.
#2. I was imagining a case where the child is beyond help, which is the situation contemplated by the proposed law. If we’re talking about a case where medical intervention could still prove effective, that’s a different story. I know that if I found someone who appeared freshly dead, I’d still report it to 911 as a medical emergency on the theory that I’m not qualified to recognize when someone is beyond medical help.
#3. Again, medical intervention is not what the law is talking about. People should certainly try to get help for those who can be saved. And I didn’t mean to imply that cops can’t help comfort people who’ve lost family members, but they’re not the only ones, and this law is not about mandatory grief counseling. I know people who, if they found a family member dead, they’d call a friend or a member of the clergy for comfort, not a cop.
You’re right, by the way, that I haven’t had experience helping parents of dead children, so my understanding of how they act is probably wrong. On the other hand, the law described in the petition would throw some of those parents in jail. I don’t have to be an expert to know that’s not going to help them. The law isn’t about helping parents or children. It’s about punishment and deterrence.
#4 It’s good that the wait is eliminated. I guess I should have known that, what with Amber alerts and all.
By the way, I get the impression from what you’ve written here that you’re concerned about cases where people discover someone in need of medical assistance but fail to recognize it, fail to act, or fail to act in a timely manner. If that’s the case, perhaps some sort of public education effort would be more helpful than an after-the-fact jail sentence.
#1) Having travelled from north to south, coast to coast, leaving ‘common sense’ up to local law, or individual families, is risky. I myself do not share the increasingly rampant “fear of govt”, so it might be my frame of reference that does not mind a nationwide law, at all. There are pockets of the USA which are breathtakingly ignorant.
Having an evenly distributed law is better, than leaving it up to some local area to decide to impose some ridiculous sentencing.
We have many nationwide laws which are very beneficial, {unrelated to mob activity.}
#2) People could make mistakes (rarely, but not impossible) in their own assessment of deciding what conditions are beyond medical help. In 30+ years of working E.R, i’ve yet to meet the parents who did NOT want help immediately upon finding an unexpectedly dead or almost dead child. Not a one. Ever.
The fact that *you’d* report someone who appears freshly dead, may not extrapolate to others, which is *why* this law is needed. Innocent people all dial 911. Even strangers coming upon a long gone skeleton dial 911. *NOT* dialing 911 is so odd as to be undescribable and suspicious.
#3) I’ve yet to meet the parent who would call their priest *prior to* 911 upon finding a dead child. {Exceptions are caring for terminally ill dying child in the home, where death is expected, and i’m sure such a provision could easily be written into law. The law’s format is still a work in progress.}
I’d think the situations where the parent does NOT call for help, would be addressed on a case by case basis, don’t you? Just like any other law.
LIke i said, proof of innocence could be destroyed in the wait time. The mere fact the parent waits is so so so odd as to be investigated, as it should be. (again, i refer to UNexpected deaths only, not terminally ill hospice situations).
I think a law requiring all missing children to be immediately reported IS indeed, helping BOTH parents and children, very very much. The faster cops get on a missing child the better the chance of a successful outcome. The faster an unexpected death of a child is investigated, the better the chance of finding evidence of what occurred coming to light.
Some children *are* being raised by idiots, and such a law could protect them. Parents whose child is successfully recovered would also benefit. I disagree with your statement that neither parents nor children would benefit from investigating the exceptions that do NOT dial 911.
{i only included examples of how cops can be helpful at your insistance they would not be helpful, btw.}
I suspect, because i do deal with very low I.Q. patients on a daily basis, my view may vary significantly from yours. The average E.R. population is NOT the same as any other. Certainly not all our patients are less intelligent, but, besides actual emergencies——the E.R. is a magnet for the mentally ill, and those who lack the intelligence to make good decisions about their own self care.
Whereas you probably associate with intelligent people for the bulk of your days, and thus, might believe most people are both rational and intelligent. I can assure you, that is not the case, at all. Not everyone makes sensible decisions to protect their children.
I do not see the downside of this law, at all. At all. It is almost in place defacto anyway. If some odd odd odd one-in-a-million parent, who, upon finding their dead child does NOT call 911, that would be dealt with on a case by case basis, just like any other law.
The wall to wall coverage that the Caylee Anthony case rec’d, may even inspire some criminals to continue to hide the body, knowing evidence is being destroyed, and without this law—- there is no down side to doing so.
This law will only impact those criminals. LIke i said, all parents i’ve ever seen in 30+ years, have always called 911 for UNexpected deaths.
Always.
No exceptions.
Even very low I.Q. parents, even extremely religious parents, all dial 911 for THAT.
I have not ever heard of a parent,no matter how religious they are—– who upon finding an UNexpected death, —–called their minister first. It is almost reflex, in the shock and horror, to dial 911, not their priest. Even ministers themselves dial 911.
Berieved grieving parents, parents staggering in shock, are hard to miss, and will not end up in this dragnet of innocents that you imagine.
All laws we have, may have exceptions, which can be, and are, sorted out on case by case basis.
But, if the law does not even exist, there is no fear for criminal parents to be punished with in
continuing
to
hide
knowledge
of dead or missing children.
Guess we can agree to disagree. I think our perspectives are different.
I’ve read criticism of this law in other places on the web – and they all say basically the same thing. The arguments are weak. They just nibble around the edges at the arbitrary details. In other words, I could make the same types of arguments against good laws that we currently have on the books in all states. Laws that no citizen would want removed.
As I’ve already mentioned on this thread, those against any form of this law need to show why not reporting a missing child for 31 days should not be a crime. They need to show why any parent deserving of the title “mother” or “father” who would fail to report a missing child would do so for good reason.
There is no way if there was an accident I would not call 911 for my children. If my daughter is missing for a minute, I am running around my house freaking out. I think personally this is a law that NEEDS to happen.
If my any of my daughters were a teenager on drugs and didn’t come home one night I would still call the police. PERIOD.
Its being a responsible parent, you shouldn’t be a parent if you are not responsible!
“As I’ve already mentioned on this thread, those against any form of this law need to show why not reporting a missing child for 31 days should not be a crime.”
It’s already not a crime. Caylee’s Law is only a proposal, it is not the law of the land. You and the other supporters of this law are the ones who want a change, therefore you are the ones who should offer an explanation of how a law like this would help. I haven’t heard a good explanation yet.
I mean, what’s your theory here? Some psychopathic parent gets the urge to murder their child and dispose of the body, but they give up on the idea because they’d have to report her missing? Do you really think the kinds of people who murder their own children think that way? At best, this would only allow for punishment after the fact. It would slake the bloodlust of the mob. That’s not a great reason for a new law.
Look, I agree with you that there’s something wrong with a parent who doesn’t report a missing or dead child in a timely manner, but laws passed in the midst of emotional turmoil usually do not turn out well. In your posts here, you yourself have substituted a 31-day limit for the law’s 1-day limit, so even you must see that the law has problems. I’m just calling for cooler heads and a bit of thought before inventing a whole new way to send people to jail.
Unless you live under a rock sir, this is why we “simple people” send our ideas for laws to the law makers! It is their job to take that suggestion and draft it into a workable and passable law, one that is fair and equitable and hopefully, self-explanatory! We have many laws that are written off the backs of miscarriages of justice or some injustice experienced by someone and this case is not unlike any of those.What people should be outraged at is the fact that we obviously need a law that requires parents and other caregivers to report a child missing or a death as soon as humanly possible, and that if you know your child is dead and you go to blockbuster and go clubbing with your buds for 31 days…You my friend are going to jail for a long, long time! As far as it being federal…why not? It has not been that many years that kidnapping was made a federal crime, murder was once a state charge also…not any more, etc..And as far as creating laws after a “high profile” crime that doesn’t work…shall we look at Amber Alerts, Megan’s Law, Jessica’s Law and now I suspect we will get some form of Caylee’s Law, and instead of looking at the negative, turn that energy in making that law better. We cannot change the verdict in this case, and that is frustrating enough, but to have people discourage or discredit the work that someone is doing to turn this wrong into something right is a moral injustice and you should be a shame of yourself….
Everyone who opposes this law sound like a bunch of heartless idiots. If you cant report a childs death by those cut off times your obviously involved. Were talking about children not petd
People keep saying this is a bad law because the petition is “flawed” and stuff. What they don’t realize is that this is JUST a proposition to put a law into effect. The government can decide what to include and/or leave out as they see fit. Just because she put certain details in her petition does not mean that has to be in the law that (hopefully) will be put into effect in the near future.
Yes there are details and issues that need to be sorted out but the general idea is what people need to be focused on, and they can offer suggestions for making this law the best it can be instead of just criticizing it.
Hmm..isn’t the whole point to bring the need for a law SIMILAR to this to enforcements attention? Nothing wrong with that.I highly doubt this will be the one and only DRAFT. Find something worthwhile to critique. She was simply trying to honor this innocent child and prevent something similar from happening to other children. I for one think it was an amazing way to do something good!
With my 2nd child, i was 6 mos pregnant when i miscarried my child. i was alone in the house, with no one but my 2 yr old daughter. i called every monkey and his uncle who could help me, including the hospital, my ex, and emergency services. what idiot doesnt know to call emergency or the hospital when there is something wrong?
if your child is missing, arent you going to give 100% more effort into finding your child? my first gut reaction would be to call the other parent to make sure they didnt take the kid, if thats not the case, then call the police. its a no brainer.
In this case she not only didnt call police or emergency personnel, she in the days after with a dead child in her car, went dancing, drinking, and celebrating. Me? i would be having a nervous breakdown calling every monkey and his uncle to help me.
People like you are why the child was murdered, you are a huge reason why “Caylee’s Law” has come to existence. So, shutup.
Mark,
I think a law could be crafted that serves a just purpose– without sacrificing common sense and sanity as it relates to obvious exceptions. Yes, the details need to be fine-tuned. One, I’ve already acknowledged. 24 hours isn’t realistic or feasible. Another, I think an age limit would be appropriate.
Children are special when it comes to verification of existence. Let’s call it, well existence. Parents, often times, can be the only other people to see their children. Many children can go days and not see another person besides their parents. Adults most likely have other people that would (and do) realize when they go missing – coworkers for example. Because of this, as it relates to children, it would be much more difficult to conceal the murder of a teen than a toddler (hence, my age limit recommendation). A teen’s well existence is most likely known by friends and others.
Small children need special protection in this regard – and unfortunately, this is protection from their parents. This law wouldn’t necessarily be to punish parents that aren’t found guilty of murder, but it would allow investigators to begin an investigation in a timely manner if reported. If a parent reports their child missing, what are the odds they murdered their child? I’d say low. If not, the investigators at least can begin an appropriate investigation and perhaps recover a dead body sooner rather than later.
If this was law, and a parent concealed the evidence of a missing child, (it would most likely because something much worse has already happened) that parent would be creating circumstantial evidence that would work against them in court. This goes back to what I said originally, “no parent would conceal their missing child”. If a parent does so, they’re slapped with a felony.
So, if you have a parent willing to get slapped with a felony to conceal their “missing” child – what else could they have done?
This is valuable and should be pursued in some way by our lawmakers.
Go be a parent and then try to write this article again.
So perhaps the time increments need to be adjusted a bit. It will be a good law and I think should apply to the deceased of any age. Typically failure to report any human death is now a misdemeanor and in all cases should be raised to a felony status in my view. I fervently support this effort.
I am a licensed social worker who has dedicated my life to working in child welfare outside Philadelphia PA. The verdict is an abomination of the law under which I serve.
She concealed AND disposed of a body… for over a month. How can that NOT be breaking a FEDERAL law?! “Caylee’s Law” should absolutely be enacted.
I have tried and tried to read through all the posts before posting my comment. I have one question…. How many feel that by not reporting a child (or anyone) missing in a reasonable timely manner is actually an attempt to cover up a crime? I agree that something needs to be done! Caylee’s Law is a positive step in that direction. Many of us feel that had Caylee’s ‘disappearance’ had been reported when she disappeared, maybe the evidence would have been found that would either convict Casey or convince the rest of us of her innocence. For now all we have is the only thing that could have happened…and did happen way too conveniently.
I realize that some of you feel that the advantages of Caylee’s Law will outweigh the disadvantages. That may be true, but I feel it would be irresponsible to hastily pass such a law without a bit more thought than may be possible in the emotional aftermath of the verdict. I’m sure that making innocent people suffer in jail is no way to honor Caylee.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and leave comments. Except for you, Catherine Gregston. You can go to hell.
you know being a person nthat ran away a lot when I was a teenager my mom never tried to call the police just because of this,I feel that a parent has the right to call the police weather it is 5 minutes or b 24 hours after their child has gone missing and it is the responsibality of the police departmrnt to do what they need or what they have to do to locate that child,No I’ve never experienced what it is like for a child go go missing or to be murdered but IT’S ABOUT TIME THAT SOMEBODY STEPS UP AND MAKE A LAW LKIE THIS IN EFFECT,and it is real sad that it is taking the death of a little girl that her mother got away with to make it happen,So yesa I am definately for this caylee law
Of course there needs to be a law. A child going unreported for 31 days is horrendous child abuse and neglect. Should the law be different for a teenager and a toddler of course. Don’t slam someone for getting the ball rolling which is what has happened. Does it need thought yes it does. In addition for failure to report a missing child what about other stipulations Should it also include obstruction of justice if the child is injured or killed during the time it was not reported missing and crucial evidence such as in Caylee’s case was rendered unreliable. Does the punishment need to be severe YES IT DOES.
There is NOWAY this should not be a crime. Imagine what truth could have been shed on this case had her death been reported. Yes almost everyone thinks she’s guilty and she got away with murder. Was this why she waited so nothing could be proven? If this law had been in effect either the authorities would have been notified sooner and perhaps we would have clearer answers or the parent would be held accountalbe for their lack of action in saving their child. What I really CAN”T BELIEVE is there aren’t already existing laws to call this what it is ABUSE, NEGLECT and obstruction of justic
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Mark,
I appreciate your post here, as well as the reasoned answers that you’ve offered in response to those that have chosen to criticize your position. In fact, from what I read, I respected THEIR reasoned criticism and responses as well! How often do you find that?? lol. Anyway, when I first heard about this law, I cringed. I know that my Criminal Law professor cited a study regarding laws such as this and the unintended consequences they produce. (In fact, I was searching for that study because I have 8 pages of argument due tomorrow for Appellate practice. lol) Anyway, I think it stands to reason that people want this law because they feel bad that this little girl suffered the way that she did, and the person most responsible for her seems to be the person least concerned. So, people feel like this is unjust and needs to be remedied. The only problem is that when laws are drafted on this type of reactionary basis, they often fail to do what they’re intended to do, and do what nobody envisioned them doing. And IMHO, you’ve hit the nail right on the head with your reasoning for why this law, at least in this form, is not good law. The problem is, that people that FEEL that way do, think someone like me is a monster for saying these kinds of things…even though I have three little girls of my own and I feel horrible just like they do. I wish people would just step back for a moment and think about times in their lives when they’ve FELT a certain way and responded to a reactionary impulse. For me, the list of forehead slapping memories that brings to mind is longer than I’d like. The problem here, is that when statutory legislation is imposed for reactionary reasons, people usually lose constitutional rights.
Oh, and I concur, Catherine Gregson is a jackass.